INTERVIEW: Mark Baines [Brisbane, Australia]
NAME: Mark Baines
CHURCH/ORG/LOCATION: Submerge
SHORT BIO: CLICK HERE
WEBSITES: bainesy.wordpress.com and submerge.net.au
1) What initially sparked your interest in ministry to postmoderns?
I’ve chosen to minister to my generation and they predominantly think like postmoderns. They would not however choose to be labeled this way.
1a) Can you provide a background to SUBMERGE? What has happened in the past? What are the results? What does the future hold?
Submerge refers to the need for us to swim deeper than the surface of the water to discover the real joys that lie beneath. This ministry targets a demographic that is rarely catered for in church (25-40yr olds). Its purpose is to help people take the next step in their journey – whether they be close to or far from God, active or inactive church members. Still in its infancy, Submerge has so far facilitated a discipleship weekend in Sydney in 2009 where 70 people from around Australia found tools to go deeper with God and share faith with their friends. A similar event is being planned for Melbourne this year. I hope to see groups of 25-40’s in each city in Australia and New Zealand include their friends in social, service and small group study experiences.
2) What are the unique benefits and opportunities for reaching out to postmoderns that come from serving in your context?
Whether in church or out, most of us are still connected. This has made it easier to connect with people who’re on the fringe or who’ve left church (my main interest). I’ve found people willing to share some of their spiritual journey and draw closer to Jesus if I show genuine care and a listening ear. I believe the Shepherd wants us to join Him in seeking the lost sheep, and that many will return if we follow the leading of the Spirit.
3) What specific methods or programs are you implementing to reach out to postmoderns?
Submerge encourages people to reconnect with their friends who’ve disconnected from church and/or God – and with their friends who’ve never known Him. We’re aiming to make disciples of Jesus – not just Christians or Adventists by name or culture. We realize people will want to share Jesus with others when they know their testimony, identity and reasons why they believe what they believe. Our goal is spiritual growth – not church attendance (many professionals struggle to come to church early on Saturday morning after a long working week).
4) How would you like to expand upon already existing ministries to reach out to more people?
We’re seeing the need for a regular newsletter which connects people and gives them tools to go deeper with God. Interest has been shown in an annual trip to the Bible lands of the Middle East and a service project in one of our neighbouring countries.
5) What specific methods are you using to draw younger people into your church/ministry? How do the church members respond and get involved with those methods?
With Submerge we’re only targeting 25yr olds (or thereabouts) at the bottom end of the scale! This is where University ministry usually stops and whilst traditionally people might have been married soon after, we’re finding church young adults matching the culture and saving marriage for their 30’s. We hope to help local church members understand the needs of this group and see their churches engage and equip young adults.
6) What are you finding to be the most relevant issues to the younger generation of people who are coming into the church? How can we respond to and help them with those issues, questions, or struggles so that they feel like the church is theirs and the church cares about them?
Young people want to know the basics of discipleship – how to pray, study the Bible, and surrender to Jesus in a world that tells them to consume. They want reasons for why Jesus is the only way. They need to know how to relate to people of other religions and why they should stick with the SDA church. They want to serve locally and abroad and be engaged in issues relating to social justice. Being sexually pure in a sex-saturated world is also vital. The church must facilitate authentic discussion and action on these issues, in an environment where people aren’t judged. Being honest, open, real and intentional about these issues – with a desire to respond as Jesus would – will hopefully meet positive results.
7) How have you worked within your church/ministry to help lay members understand postmoderns and want to get involved with reaching out to them?
I started a blog a couple of years ago and have written some articles for church publications. I also preach occasionally and have many conversations with church members.
8) How do you share responsibilities among the pastoral staff and lay members so that no one becomes overwhelmed?
Currently Submerge is has a nation-wide focus (as opposed to local church) so this is not an issue. Submerge is not reliant on pastoral staff or conference administration/departments keeping it financed or afloat. We believe a grass-roots approach that is simple and reproducible will work best.
9) Have you ever had people on your church team or within your congregation who have felt deeply offended with the changes that were taking place, or who disagreed with the programs that you were implementing? If so, how do you handle that?
Many ‘church members’ hope that young adults who’ve left church will return. I explain that my focus is their spiritual growth, not their presence on a pew. This is sometimes misunderstood. I endeavor to explain our need to move from measuring spirituality by church attendance to the practice of spiritual disciplines, and most can relate to this.
10) What would you recommend to others who want to effectively reach postmoderns who are just skipped by a lot of churches and outreach programs?
Mix with them, make friends of them, pray for and with them! For a church perspective, empower them to be the leaders of initiatives that they believe will work and celebrate the wins and losses. I think postmoderns want to know that Christianity is not just a label, but that it results in a changed life that treats others as Jesus would.
11) What books or resources have been most influential in shaping your understanding of postmoderns, or helpful in offering ministry models and insights to reach them?
- Revolution – George Barna http://www.barna.org/store?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3&category_id=1
- Exiles – Michael Frost http://www.amazon.com/Exiles-Living-Missionally-Post-Christian-Culture/dp/1565636708
- Relevation – Nathan Brown http://www.relevation.com.au/
- Movements that change the world – Steve Addison http://www.movements.net/
- The Great Omission – Dallas Willard http://www.dwillard.org/books/GreatOmission.asp